Chatting over tea with composer Alexander Zhurbin

Welcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World, where I interview musicians about how their music helps make the world more harmonious.

There’s nothing quite like interviewing a guest in person, and this time it was an absolute delight to chat in London with prolific composer Alexander Zhurbin.

Thanks to Alexander for allowing me to play extracts from his piano concert and symphonic work Vereteno alongside our conversation.

Thank you for listening to Harmonious World. Please rate, review and share: click on the link and subscribe to support the show.

Don't forget the Quincy Jones quote that sums up why I do this: "Imagine what a harmonious world it would be if every single person, both young and old, shared a little of what he is good at doing."

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Hilary 0:20

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World. I'm Hilary Seabrook, and for this episode, I travelled into London to interview the incredible Alexander Zhurbin, who is a modern classical composer, but there's definitely other things going on there as well. You're listening to the concerto for piano and orchestra by Alexander Zhurbin, and I hope you enjoy listening to our conversation.

Alexander 1:28

Thank you very much.

Hilary 1:29

Tell me why you're in the UK. Are you here on holiday or are you working?

Alexander 1:35

Well, it is kind of holiday and uh vacation, and we with my wife, we make some cruise cruise around the UK. Yeah. And the end, of course, was in London. Yeah. And we bring I came to this hotel. Yeah. And because Igor makes this meeting, I'm very happy to answer your question.

Hilary 1:57

Yeah, thank you. And your wife is a poet, is that right?

Alexander 1:59

Yes.

Hilary 2:00

Does she write poetry in English or in Russian?

Alexander 2:03

No, in Russian. But in fact, she is a translator, but not from English, from German. Oh she translated Goethe and Schiller and Heine and all these people. Into Russian. Into Russian, yeah.

Hilary 2:16

Wow. That's amazing, isn't it? And how long have you lived in New York?

Alexander 2:20

We live in New York 36 years.

Hilary 2:23

Right. Yeah.

Alexander 2:23

Yeah, from 1990, when the Soviet Union disappeared.

Hilary 2:28

Yes. Yes, indeed.

Alexander 2:30

And we used to live in Moscow before.

Hilary 2:35

Right.

Alexander 2:36

And then we decided to go to New York City. But then when uh Russia became kind of free country in 2000 or something, I start start to live in two countries together. It was not easy because you know through ocean and around the ocean, it's it's really difficult. But I I was happy because I still write music in Russia and start to start uh write music in the United States.

Hilary 3:07

And that's amazing. And you've got a huge back catalogue, haven't you? So how many pieces? I mean it's in well over a hundred publishers.

Alexander 3:15

Yeah, but but you know what? I I I made some um uh idea that to put the my musical in two uh two sides. One side is uh symphony music, chamber music, solo music, and blah blah blah. Second part is a theatrical music, you know, it is different because it's totally, you know, this music is most serious, this music is not very serious because in theater, especially if you write a musical or maybe operetta or some, and I do it, and of course it's difficult. And I I do this two lines.

Hilary 3:54

Ah, right, and um, because one of the things I want to talk to you about is Orpheus and Eurydice, Eurydice.

Alexander 4:01

Yeah, Orpheus and Eurydice. I have written it in 1975. Yeah, it was like 51 years ago, and it is still alive, and some theaters in Russia they still make a new production, and this production and making tours, and it's still alive. It's it's incredible.

Hilary 4:22

That's amazing, yeah.

Alexander 4:23

But it is not real opera, in fact, it is rock opera, but it is kind of uh you know rock opera, but if you can play it, you know, it was once uh played without the rock music and without uh guitar and you know jazz and whatever, just the music and the notes, and that was wonderful because if people sing great uh melody and plays in piano, it's it's still opera.

Hilary 4:53

Yeah, well, that's right. And in fact, one of the things I like about opera is that you can have those two different things. You can have the big performance on stage and with the whole band or the whole orchestra and a whole chorus of thing, or you can have you can take an aria and just perform it with a piano.

Alexander 5:13

Right. You know what? I have written already ten operas. Ten operas, two of them are kind of rock opera because it's you know some intonation is connected with uh rock music. But eight other operas is just uh real operas, I mean contemporary opera, close to I don't know, Prokofiev or Shostakovich or Britton or whatever, you know, like a serious opera. And uh they are also produced and trying, but unfortunately it is in Russian language. Yeah, yeah, and uh nobody I I can translate it, but I have to uh find the find the theater that was interesting, and because it is absolutely not for Russian people, it's for all people. For example, one one of my opera called Metamorphosis of Love. This is opera dedicated to some famous people, like Jogan Wolgen Goethe. It is a oh my sorry, it is first part of uh this opera is a three uh tripty, like a Puccini. Okay, yeah, yes. First part is dedicated to Goethe, second part dedicated to Gustav Mahler. Yes, he is a hero, and the second uh part is uh dedicated to Rainer Marie Rilke, it is famous Deutsche German poet. Yes, and it is about the life of these three persons. I don't want to uh make it you know many many words about that, but still it is existed, it is performed in Moscow, and now it performs in St. Peterburg, and I'm ready to translate it. You know, I I can some people will hear your post and say, Oh my goodness, I I want to see this opera.

Hilary 6:58

Yes, yeah. I I love that. I love, I mean, one of the things about Harmonious World is the fact that you know music goes across barriers, but across borders, and it doesn't matter. And and I think you know, there there seems to be a sort of thawing of Russian music again, um, and it seems to be becoming more acceptable in the West again, which is amazing, and there's some incredible, incredible Russian you know, Russian music is uh one of the best parts of Russia, yeah.

Alexander 7:33

I know, because uh no, of course, Tchaikovsky and Musovsky, and after that Shostakovich and Prokofiev, and new generation, which I am a new generation for these people, yeah. Spring do something really important and uh maybe even high high level.

Hilary 7:53

Ah, but no, absolutely. Tell me how you how you started in music, what where what how did you begin as a musician?

Alexander 8:02

Okay, uh, I was born in the city of Tashkent. Tashkent, it is Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan, it is a country, now it's an independent country. By the way, uh, I'm going to go there in maybe one month because they're making my uh concert there and with my symphony and my chamber music, and they love me because I left it like no 60 years ago, but they still remember me and they you know make me like a big figure. Yeah, and I started in Tashkent. Uh I went to music school. My parents were absolutely not musician, but my mother was she's singing, she's singing like a natural voice she has. Yeah, and I listened to that and I play it on the piano and can play these songs. Later, I went to the music school and started to play cello. Cello was my first instrument, and I I was not a great cellist, but I played, for example, Dvorzik concert of you know, kind of complicated concert, and I played it with orchestra. But after that I decided that I have to start a composer. And I start to compose. I start when I was 10 years old. 10 years old. I still have some uh schizus, how to say it now. Um well the notes, the notes, yes, the notes with I with the manuscripts. Manuscript, yeah. I still have it, and by the way, I put my first first um first place or first uh I I did a I edit it and made and published it as a music for kinder, for child children, yeah, for children, and they play it all over the uh Russia and not even not in Russia and everywhere. It is a music which I've written because I was 10, 12, like wow, yeah, yeah.

Hilary 10:08

So so you um you clearly discovered that and you went to music school, yeah. Um and did you do a degree? I mean, I I don't know how the music education works in Russia.

Alexander 10:23

Yeah, well, I I I finished the school and then I went to uh conservatory. Conservatory is an institute of music, and uh I I still was uh playing cello, but after that I forget about cello, put it in the corner. Uh and uh I uh started only compose, and after that I I went to Moscow. Moscow is a city, uh you know, the biggest city of Russia and a very important city full of uh art. And I went to Moscow and I become a student of Academy of Gnesians, you don't know what, but it's like a jeweler's school, and uh after that uh I I finish uh conservatory, and after that I get to Aspirantur. Aspirantur is kind of highest student how the like a master's degree, maybe yeah, master's degree, something like that. Yes, and by the way, I was not only a composer but also a musicologist. Musicologist, and I have written a dissertation about Gustav Mahler, and he is my favorite composer still, still, I I know about Mahler everything. And uh well, it was and I started to write music, different music, and symphony music and chamber music, and but my name became very well known after the opera Orpheus in Yuridici. I was 29 years old, and I have written this opera and it was produced, and it started to play like every all this Soviet Union, you know, it was Soviet Union.

Hilary 12:07

Well, that's I think that's really the point that when you when you were growing up and when you were in Moscow, yeah, that was part of the Soviet Union, so so it was all one big country, and it it I think for for people who who are perhaps a bit younger than us, they have no concept of you know, these small countries, like you say, Uzbekistan and you know, all of those countries that were part of the Soviet Union, yeah, but that was part, you know, they were all you so when you went to Moscow, you weren't going abroad, you were just going to a the uh sort of major city. Yeah. Um oh right, and and so what made you turn to the Orpheus and Eurydice story for your for your rock opera?

Alexander 12:52

Well, it was kind of strange, you know. But it was start in England, yeah, because Mr. Andrew Lloyd Weber, yes, whom I knew by the way, I met him. Well, not he, I'm not his friend, of course, but uh several times I uh his uh his hand. And uh Andrew Lloyd Weber has written uh Jesus Christ Superstar. Yes, and of course I listened to that and I knew it. And by the way, I knew started to learn English language because of Jesus Christ Superstar. Wow, and I I knew uh all the notes, and uh some people in Russia decided we have to make a Russian rock opera, yeah. And uh I met one two men, one was a librettist, and second was the artistic director of uh the rock group called singing guitars. You know, it's already died, everything, and all these people are died. I'm still alive. And we have written this uh or Feo Red, and suddenly, suddenly, it was uh absolutely not possible to play rock opera in the Soviet Union, you know, communist, yeah, all this really you know, terrible people, they for uh forbid everything, yeah. But suddenly, I don't know why, but somehow this said, okay, play it, and they start to play and whole great country, you know, from uh east uh eastern for western, and and they all touring, touring and touring, and all these people start. Oh my goodness, our fear and Euridic. And we made a uh not C D, it was uh vinyl, viny vinyl, yeah. And this vinyl was um uh sold about like a million million five uh and then start a cd and then something else, and it's still the sell and so and so. You can find it in Amazon, by the way.

Hilary 14:53

Wow, that's amazing. I'm gonna check it out. I'm gonna find it because um, you know, I don't I obviously I know about Tchaikovsky and Mazorsky and and Shostakovich, but I don't know much modern Russian music, and so I I will definitely check that out. Absolutely. Yeah, and I love the idea. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of Andrew Lloyd Webber, but but I do think he was in is incredibly good at what he does. Very talented, yeah, very talented.

Alexander 15:25

He's melodious, you know.

Hilary 15:26

Yeah, I mean they they are some of the catchiest tunes, aren't they? I mean, you you talk about Jesus Christ Superstar, and it's got some amazing melodies that that you know people who don't know that it's from Jesus Christ Superstar would know those songs. Of course, yeah, and of course, his brother is a great cellist as well.

Alexander 15:44

I I don't I never met him, but I I know that. Yes, she's still alive, she's playing.

Hilary 15:49

Yes, yeah, yes, yeah. Um, so that's really interesting, and of course, your career sort of spans the USSR into the sort of the new Russia, and now you're in New York and you're going backwards and forwards between um between places, and that's wonderful that you're going to go back to your sort of roots.

Alexander 16:12

Right.

Hilary 16:12

Yeah.

Alexander 16:13

Yeah. But you know what? I tell you absolutely frankly that unfortunately in in the United States it is very difficult to get high. I know. Because you know, you have to start as a kid and go with some friends and some you know professors and something else. I started, I I came to United States at uh I was 44, 45. It was not young. And it was very difficult. My son, who came with me, uh, and he was 10 years old, and he he did a really great career. You know, he's a very talented musician. I'm so happy that his ears, incredibly, he played with uh Yoyo Ma, you know, oh yeah, yeah, and he played Yoama made him recommendations. I never seen so ears in uh any male, any man, you know, because he knows everything. And he's a very talented guy. And he also, as me, he is writing uh classical music and uh tradition, traditional music. In the meantime, he is now working with a group which you maybe know, Cold Play.

Hilary 17:24

Oh, really?

Alexander 17:25

Yeah, he's working with them.

Hilary 17:26

Oh, how long?

Alexander 17:27

Chris Morris. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Hilary 17:30

Oh wow, that's brilliant. I will I'll check him out and I'll put the links in the show notes as well as the links for to your yeah to your stuff because that's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. Um, and talk to him about your symphonies because you've written quite a lot, haven't you?

Alexander 17:50

Yeah. Now I'm working on eleven.

Hilary 17:53

Because that's quite a big thing, because a lot of people get to nine and then they don't write anymore. You know, that's quite a big thing.

Alexander 17:59

You know, here I I have some trick, uh, you know, some focus. What I did when I finished eighth symphony, and uh I I have to start ninth symphony, but I start together two symphonies, ninth symphony and ten symphony. And when I finish ninth symphony, and next day I finished ten symphony, and nobody killed me, you know.

Hilary 18:23

No, that's right. Very good, very good. Yeah, yes. So, so um there's a there's something very special about uh orchestral music, and one of the things I like about it is the different orchestrations. Yeah, so obviously Mahler, you know, he used huge orchestras and sometimes a regular orchestra, like fourth symphony is normal orchestra. Yeah, yeah. So what what's your what's your favorite kind of setup of orchestra? Just a sort of standard symphony orchestra, or do you like adding in interesting things?

Alexander 18:57

Yeah, you know what? Um my tenth symphony, they all are different. First symphony I've written when I finished my Academy of Music in Nessin. Uh, it was a regular symphony. Second symphony was chamber orchestra, chamber symphony. Third symphony was uh also kind of chamber symphony, but fourth symphony was a like a malar eighth symphony, you know. Yeah, many parts, many movements, and choir, and seven soloists, and you know, and and about ten languages. Ten languages started with uh Latin and uh English and French and German and Russian and well a lot, you know. It is it's it was some about very important uh materials which I want to make. Fifth symphony, also great, great orchestra, and maybe you you listen to that, I believe, Igor.

Hilary 19:53

Yes, I think the fifth is the one that I the one that I listened to sort of all the way through.

Alexander 19:58

Yeah, it is kind of very strange because it's in fact it is a symphony, but it is a concerto for four instruments, like uh violin, viola, cella, and piano. Yeah, and they play together, it's fantastic. It was yeah, it was several times it was performed that I'm trying to make a performing somewhere in in the western world, but unfortunately it's too expensive, you know.

Hilary 20:25

Well, yes, yes, that is that is the problem. Um, do you conduct as well?

Alexander 20:31

Well, a little bit, you know. I I have uh written uh a lot of music for a movie, about 60 movies, 65 movies, you know. Of course, again, Russian movies, yeah. Uh no, including Uzbek movie and Kyrgyz movie, but nobody knows. Okay. And sometimes I conduct it myself because for movies it's better when you see the screen, you know, and make it, oh well, I know that. But I'm not a conductor. Right. I'm pianist, I can do that.

Hilary 21:03

Yeah, yes. So the next thing I was gonna ask you about is your books that you've written. Because you've written, is it 11 books?

Alexander 21:12

Um, yes, 11 books are already sold out, let's say. You know, interesting that no, of course, when I started, it was in in 1978. And uh I no, of course, the publishing publish this these books and people buy it. It was easy in the bookstore. Now it is working on the other side. Uh, it is kind of you can order my book and you can order, but it is in Russian language, so no, yeah, no, I probably buy. But uh people if if they want to have this book, they write to the internet, yeah. They they have uh they all Order two one book or two books or three books and they send it to you and they pay for that, and some small part of that is going to me. Not big. You cannot live on that. No, no. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I write a music a lot of uh, you know, I'm kind of a journalist, right? Right. Yeah, and I write about uh opera and symphony concerto and about musicals and about about my life. And you know, for example, I will write about my cruise around uh around uh United Kingdom. And by the way, you you have you uh Facebook. Yes, yes, did you see me?

Hilary 22:42

Uh no, but I will find you now. We'll do that in a minute. Yeah, yes, yes.

Alexander 22:46

You will do it, and of course, again it is in Russian, but you will see a lot of pictures and a lot of and uh yesterday we've been in uh Salisbury church or whatever. Cathedral, cathedral, right? And after that they went to uh Stonehenge.

Hilary 23:06

Oh, very good.

Alexander 23:07

Yeah, and I yeah, I'm interested in everything, you know. Yeah, and I I I came today, by the way. You know where I am going tonight. No, tonight I'm going to the new musical called Holyfood. Yeah, and it is by the way, a very good name because I knew Shostakovich and he was my mentor, and uh he was really holy and he was a really fool because he he was very strange man, you know, strange and not regular men, he was a whole like it, but it's interesting, and I uh tonight I'm going to see.

Hilary 23:39

Wow, that's amazing to see something on stage about somebody that you knew, exactly. Yeah, and let's just do a rewind there because I mean Shost Dukovich is probably one of the most famous uh Russian composers.

Alexander 23:55

Absolutely.

Hilary 23:55

So, what was that? How did you get to be working with him?

Alexander 24:00

You know, it's it's an interesting story. Very shortly, I tell you. I was living in the St. Petersburg. So it was um uh Aspirantura, which you said uh, what is it? It's next after uh after the conservatory, you're going to oh yeah, to when you're doing your master's master's degree. And I was in Saint Peterborough and in Saint Peterborough I was a member of uh Union of Composers, and I have written piano concerto at the moment, and it was written, it was translated in television. And he, Shostakovich, he was in the his country house near Peterborough and see it, and he loves my and he said to his friends, look, you know this composer, Alexander Joubett. He said, Yeah, can you somehow to connect me? Because I love his piano concerto. And of course I was happy and I came to him, but unfortunately he was very no, he was very sick in the moment, yeah, ill. You know, his um legs not working, and he it was terrible, you know. He was not not very old, he was only uh 68, 67. Yeah, yeah. But unfortunately, but he invited me, and every year in the summertime when he was in his country house, I came to him and I showed him my music, and he made some uh uh words, you know. And I remember all those words, yeah.

Hilary 25:34

Wow, yeah, yeah. I mean that's amazing because I think I think one of the things about Shostakovich is he lived through that whole communist era in a way that must have been incredibly difficult because to be a musician, to be creative at that time was was incredibly difficult.

Alexander 25:50

And he he was very smart, by the way, and you understand that he hates communist empire, and he but he couldn't say it was no, but he did write something which for only a small small circle of people, and he did this uh um and it after his he dies, and after the communist dies, yeah, they perform with it. It's it's so fun and so yeah ironic, you know.

Hilary 26:19

Yeah, and now Russians are proud of him, and yeah, well, yes his right his work is just amazing. Yeah, so and then you were talking about you were talking as well about Mahler and about his influence, and and you know, he's another one, isn't it?

Alexander 26:34

When he was young, yeah, they played it was a Bruckner and Mahler community, and they play in four for uh for four plays. Okay, for for hands, for hence they play all the symphony of Bruckner and Mahler, and he knows all this music.

Hilary 26:55

Wow, that's amazing, isn't it? It really is, and and you know, you're connected to those people, you know, there's a direct line between you, your compositions, and and that Russian heritage, yeah, musical heritage, which is amazing. So, but what's next? So, what are you going to work on next? Apart from writing about your trip to the UK, what is next? Music.

Alexander 27:19

Oh no, well, I I just finished new opera. Oh, good! Yeah, and this opera is chamber opera, it's uh very chamber because it's only five people in the opera, no choir, no small orchestra, chamber orchestra, the chamber opera, and it's based on a French play. It's comedy, it is real comedy, it's very funny, and people I hope that they will laugh. Right. Yeah, and I almost finished that. Uh, in the meantime, and now I want to show you something. Um, okay. Uh it is what it's just recently I I finished this clarinet quintet. Oh and by the way, this even clarinet part can be played by saxophone, but I also play clarinet. Oh, really? So it's good. Oh wow, yeah, and it's it's called uh Paris. I love you, because I I really love Paris. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, and this music it's not really the quotation from the French song. No, no, it's my music, but somehow it's uh like a French music, you know.

Hilary 28:32

Wow it's a cult, uh it is has a three three three movements evening, night, morning. How wonderful! And you've just finished that.

Alexander 28:44

Yeah, well, just published this. I finished it in last year, and uh, I I want to make a gift for you. Oh, wow. Yeah, and here by the way, is in parts. Parts. Uh here is the parts. Oh, yeah, fantastic. If you can make it, and you can play it. I I give it for free. I mean thank you so much. Of course, if you will if you will play it somewhere in the concert, I will be very happy. And by the way, I sent you the record, right? Okay, yeah, it's the first time it was played exactly in Paris.

Hilary 29:22

Wow. Yeah, oh, and I can try and find I can find a string quartet. That would be wonderful.

Alexander 29:31

I believe you know some string quartets.

Hilary 29:32

Of course, yes. Oh wow, thank you so much. That's really kind. Will you sign this for me?

Alexander 29:38

Of course.

Hilary 29:39

Thank you. Oh, that's brilliant. Yes, yes. So um, so so you're not slowing down, you're not stopping as a composer.

Alexander 29:49

No, I don't want.

Hilary 29:50

No.

Alexander 29:50

I I I'm trying to, you know, now you know I am 81. 81. I'm not, I cannot make a mystery, but I am 91. But some of my friends, for example, the my uh co-author of the this uh opera which I'm writing now, he's 95. Well, there you are. 95. He's a nice guy, you know, he's playing tennis, keep him. Yeah, so you can don't don't think about the death.

Hilary 30:18

Of course, death will come, but yeah, but enjoy life while you can for sure. And I think there's something about musicians who keep who keep working. Um, I mean Quincy Jones was working right to the you know, just a few weeks before many many composers, Stravinsky, yeah, Sibelus.

Alexander 30:39

Yeah, yeah, about 90, yeah.

Hilary 30:41

Yeah, yeah.

Alexander 30:42

So I still want to write good, excellent.

Hilary 30:45

Okay, that's that's amazing. That's wonderful. Well, I hope you enjoyed the rest of your trip to the UK.

Alexander 30:52

Thank you very much.

Hilary 30:52

It's been such a pleasure, I can't tell you, to to talk to you. It's been fantastic. What a pleasure it was to chat with Alexander Zhurbin. And I know you could hear the clatter of our cups, and you know, there were some hesitations and lost in translation moments, but what a wonderful conversation, and how lovely that I had that opportunity to chat with him in person when he last came to London. So thank you, Alexander, for that. What you're listening to now is Alexander Zhurbin's Veritano. I'm sure I'm mispronouncing that. And watch this space for me trying out the clarinet quintet Paris love story, which just looks amazing and sounds brilliant. I am going to work on that in the coming months. So thank you for joining me for this episode of Harmonious World. And I am very, very excited that in just a few days I'm going to be doing another one, but this one is live in front of an audience. Tickets are just five pounds if you're around in Hitchin. But if you're not in Hitchin and you're listening to this, then there is a link to be part of this live recording with organist and composer Rufus Frowde. All you have to do is watch the Hitchin Creative YouTube channel, and there is a link in the show notes. So thank you for joining me once more for this episode of Harmonious World. Lots of exciting things coming up, and I hope you can be a part of it.