Music as a force for connection - with Tobias Hoffmann

Welcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World, where I interview musicians about how their music helps make the world more harmonious.

Composer, arranger and saxophonist Tobias Hoffmann focuses on the relationship between composition and improvisation. His latest album - Innuendo - is an exciting collection of tracks performed by the Tobias Hoffmann Jazz Orchestra.

Thanks to Tobias for allowing me to play extracts from Innuendo alongside our conversation.

Thank you for listening to Harmonious World. Please rate, review and share: click on the link and subscribe to support the show.

Don't forget the Quincy Jones quote that sums up why I do this: "Imagine what a harmonious world it would be if every single person, both young and old, shared a little of what he is good at doing."

Transcript

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Hilary 0:26

Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of Harmonious World. My name is Henry Seaver. For this episode, I am delighted to be joined by Sacred Fair composer and arranger to my software who contacted me directly. So if you're a musician, then that's always an option. Although I have to say that I'm fully focused at the moment for about the next two and a half months. What you're listening to now is Sanctuary. Taken from any latest album from the first half of the first or history. And I hope you enjoy listening to our conversation. So welcome to Harmonious World. I am delighted. Tobias Hoffman, you contacted me direct. That's a great thing to do. Thank you.

Tobias 1:35

Yeah, thank you. I I just covered you through Instagram and uh your work there, and I thought this is very interesting, and I want to reach out.

Hilary 1:45

Excellent. Well, I'm really glad you did, because I get a lot of my uh contacts through sort of PR agencies and that sort of thing, and it's really nice when I can speak directly to musicians.

Tobias 1:56

So yeah, I'm looking forward.

Hilary 2:00

Absolutely. You sent me some of your albums which I have been listening to.

Tobias 2:06

Great.

Hilary 2:08

Hang on. So let me see. So Innuendo, so Innuendo is the new one.

Tobias 2:13

That's the latest one. It's from 2024, yeah.

Hilary 2:16

Right, and then there was Conspiracy and the Nanette one retrospective.

Tobias 2:21

Exactly, yeah.

Hilary 2:22

Yeah, well, they're very, very interesting. So I want to focus obviously on Innuendo because that's your latest one. But you're also you're a uh, you know, that's with jazz orchestra.

Tobias 2:35

Exactly, yeah.

Hilary 2:37

So why go with a big a a big undertaking like that? That's my first question to you.

Tobias 2:46

Well, you know, I love writing music, and I love writing jazz music. Well, I'm I'm from my education, my training a jazz musician, and so on. Uh I love jazz music, I love writing for jazz ensembles, and it's a little bit like I think in like in the classical world, um you tend to go to the largest ensemble you have. You know, like people wrote for symphony orchestras, and I consider the um jazz orchestra a little bit like the symphony orchestra of jazz. And so uh I was always also as a player really drawn to to the idea of big bands and jazz orchestras. And actually, after recording and releasing the No Net album uh in 2019, we released the music, I really had the wish to to go one step bigger to really have the chance to to use all the colors and the instruments, and yeah, that's basically how I got into jazz orchestras.

Hilary 3:45

When you're recording in the recording studio, although that can be quite expensive, it's nowhere near as expensive as going out on the road.

Tobias 3:53

Right.

Hilary 3:54

With a big orchestra. So so fantastic. So when did you write the pieces for this album for Innuendo, which came out in 2024?

Tobias 4:04

Well, the pieces for this album I always write like in the one and a half years before the recording session, I wrote all the music basically for that. So because we recorded we all it's you can always say like if it the music is released in 2024, we recorded in summer 2023, and then so from 2021, roughish, till 2023, I wrote the music.

Hilary 4:28

Right. So so right at the end of well, I say right at the end of lockdown. Have we for have we left lockdown? Are we still in a pandemic?

Tobias 4:36

I don't know. Well, I think technically we're out, of course, and uh we can do basically again uh or have a life like pre-COVID. But of course, everything what happened in those two, three for some people also four years maybe, um changed and changed our lives and how we see things.

Hilary 4:59

Absolutely, and I think one of the big things for me was I hadn't heard of Zoom before the pandemic, and now it makes my life so much easier because I can speak to people around the world. Yeah. And of course, before COVID Zoom wasn't really a thing. I mean, it did exist, but um, you know, nobody used it the way we use it now, and we're comfortable using it, I think.

Tobias 5:25

Yeah, we learned. I mean, we had uh we had something Skype or something like this, you know, and you did maybe somebody who was on Apple had FaceTime, and once in a while you did this for to see your fam friends and family which are not close by, but to use it in a professional way, like we're doing it now, like having an interview like this, and uh or I I was even teaching uh through through online video lessons in the time of COVID, so that was a very new thing. And some some of the things which happened also have a positive influence, like that we can do something like this now, you know.

Hilary 6:03

Absolutely, and one of the things you said in your email to me originally was how you were drawn to harmonious world because of what I try and do, which is make connections between people, between musicians and between musicians and their audiences, and and and bringing music to new audiences. Um and I think that that whole idea of connection is so important.

Tobias 6:27

It is, it is, and um especially in the music world or in the jazz world, because it's sometimes a very small world. It's uh uh and uh yeah, uh those those let's say online tools can really help to to get people interested because also the access for people for customers or people who are interested in the music or so is very low level. I mean everybody has a smartphone and can go to YouTube, you know, and then oh that's the new music is just two clicks away. There's not so much effort anymore to discover new music.

Hilary 7:04

No, that's right. It's actually so much easier. That that actually, you know, I put links into in the show notes and I write reviews and things, and that that means that people can just go, oh, right, there we are. So it is a wonderful.

Tobias 7:17

It is, it isn't. I think really also certain things took really off in a pandemic. I see it like uh where I where I think what really changes like score videos on YouTube, like where you can score follow uh follow the score with the audio. I think like years ago that was like hard. And nowadays, at least for let's say learning and research purposes, this is amazing. You know, I'm not I'm not talking about the law perspective or anything, but you can go just to you can go to YouTube and listen to your favorite music and you have a score there, and or someone who explains things, and you're like the wealth of information and the accessibility is incredible.

Hilary 7:58

Yeah, definitely. And I think just in terms of the that connection between people, um, I think it's uh it's a fabulous thing. What was the inspiration for Innuendo for this uh big band jazz orchestra album?

Tobias 8:13

Well, I um I always said you know, just to make the picture clear, you know, after retrospective, I said, or before retrospective, I said I just do one CD, then I did it in my life, and I stopped. You know, then I said, nah, maybe one jazz orchestra CD, you know, then I did conspiracy. And then actually, right after Conspiracy was released, I realized this is a lot of fun also to do that. And so partly and part of the inspiration to do this was because I had written again a lot of music, and I I truly enjoy working with real human beings and musicians in the studio, you know. And so a part of the inspiration was like I have a I have uh a lot of compositions who build a thread who can tell uh who can tell a story over a whole album, and I really want to get my band back together in the studio. So I decided, okay, then you have to go to the and do the endeavor once more and uh go through the process. And that was a huge part of of um of the reason why I did innuendo or recorded it.

Hilary 9:21

Yeah, and I think I mean one of the questions I often ask people is, you know, are you taking this album on the road? But actually, I I also think it doesn't matter if you don't, because the music still exists. It doesn't matter if you will never get an opportunity to uh have this music in that pure in that pure form with those that number of musicians. That doesn't matter because it exists in that form.

Tobias 9:49

For me, that is also an important part, you know. I I I really understand why people um go to concerts and play concerts, but in a way there is something very you know, my my sometimes what I dislike about concerts, it's it's a biggest strength also about concerts, it's just in the moment, and after the concert, it's gone a little bit. Yeah, okay, people take their expression or impressions at home and the music and so, but somehow I really like to even it's maybe old school to to have an archive of my music, and from then then recording is the way to do it, also.

Hilary 10:25

So yeah, yeah. Well, at this point, I would like to play the opening of Innuende. Oh, right. So the opening of the opening of the title track because I think it's a really interesting the arrangement and the orchestration and everything like that. So let's just play a bit of that now. Cool. So how did you start writing innuendo?

Tobias 11:28

Well, I I started writing it in the basement of my former dorm where I lived at the piano, and I was spa what you um I d I d m I didn't write it chronologically, you know, so you don't hear it from my ideas are then put in different ways together. So I really started actually I started with a trombone melody, which you hear after this squeaky bass bass thing that comes a trombone melody. That was the first part I wrote, you know, and this was a little bit like um just a four or five measure improvisation, more or less. And then I realized, oh, that's a um that could work as a composition, you know. And then I you then I started to to analyze my own material and twist and turn it in many different ways.

Hilary 12:17

That's really interesting because one of the things I like, so so I spend my time between writing and and music and podcasting and stuff, and when I'm writing, quite often I will write something and go, actually, that's the end, or that's the beginning, or you know, it's it's you don't you don't that and that's the joy of of creating anything that you can you can turn into some whatever you want because you can because you're the creator.

Tobias 12:47

Exactly, and especially with something like words or uh music, uh you're not you're not forced to do it in a chronological order. And that can be super super interesting because in the process sometimes your point of view on your own material can change really a lot, you know. And I mean talking about music, or if you take it as a character, um also in fiction, the surroundings and the storytelling and the context really change sometimes how something is perceived. You know, you can take one simple m musical motive, it can be something completely different if it is played by a different instrument group, if it is a background behind the soloist, if it is the bass line, and and and and if you're if you leave yourself as a creative person the freedom to to just work on your material and then at the end stitch it together, um it can open up a lot of different possibilities.

Hilary 13:45

Yeah, it's a wonderful thing, and I think uh well then the next stage of that, of course, is you do all the composition, but you open up parts of it, sections of it, for improvisation.

Tobias 13:59

Exactly.

Hilary 14:00

And so that's got another element where you've been you're in a way when you're composing you're improvising, um, but then you are opening it up and saying to somebody else, right, here you are, in this section I want you to improvise. Here are the chords, off you go. How do you react when people start improvising around your pieces?

Tobias 14:25

Um that's a good question. Usually I try to have not any expectation at all. Um I have the luxury to to work with some musicians who I know are capable of doing a lot of things, and I have the luxury to know them also a little bit. So I can already, when I'm composing, that's in best case, or when I'm assigning my pieces a little bit to a soloist or calling up people, I can decide, oh, that is a solo for him or her. And um so usually I try not to expect anything when they solo, and usually I try to not react first firsthand if they don't ask me. I mean if somebody asks me, they get an opinion, but I realize that a lot of times this the if I don't say anything and leave the soloist and trust them, the trusting part is sometimes hard, uh, I get surprised and uh I get a result which is a lot better than I could have imagined.

Hilary 15:29

Yeah, and it's wonderful, isn't it, when you've composed something and somebody takes it in a different direction that you hadn't imagined.

Tobias 15:37

Yeah, exactly. With Innuendo, you know, uh uh with this bass solo uh which you hear. Some people ask me, Well, did you write that? No, I didn't. The story behind it is I I wrote uh a C pedal for the bass, and I wrote uh pitches in the piano. And I said something like improvise with those pitches. You know, in the studio we did two or three takes where they pretty much did what I wrote. And then I re but I realized something starts to develop here, and we had still some time, and at a certain moment I said, Yeah, we just play another one, feel free. And we do another one, feel free. And you know, actually them we did then four or five more tracks, uh takes, and I just let them play. And at a certain moment I started to just come up with that, and um it was so refreshing for me. I never had would have expected that this composition has this intro at that point, but um for me it is still you know super fresh when I hear it, and it's very interesting.

Hilary 16:41

Yeah, well it is, it is, that's why I chose it for this for that part of the this part of our conversation. So what's next for you, Tobias?

Tobias 16:52

Next is actually the recording of my third CD. At the end of August, we're going again to the studio, and um I prepared again some music. Uh and um this time I took a slightly different approach. I still write uh compositions uh fully fledged and long uh with a long uh arc and storytelling, but this time I um dedicated all the compositions a little bit more to how does a human being behave in society? Where do we how are we reflected? How is the eye, so the personality shaped by our surroundings, by our friends, family. So there will be compositions which are a little bit more dedicated to those topics because besides my mute my passion for music, I still have a passion for um social studies, for politics political science, and to yeah, so if I'm not listening to music, I'm listening to a lot of political podcasts and trying to listen to interviews and get my get an idea uh about certain of the some of those contempor contemporary topics, you know, where are we going as societies, uh what are our strengths, challenges at the moment. So I dedicated the new compositions to that topic, to those thoughts. More or less, it's just a very broad thing. And at the end of August, yeah, and actually in one month from today, when we're recording, everything is already recorded.

Hilary 18:24

Wow, that's fantastic. It's really interesting because um uh you don't hear so much people saying, Oh, you should stay out of politics, because I think we've realized that we all have an opinion and we all have to stand up and be counted about the things that matter to us.

Tobias 18:42

Exactly, you know, and it's not that I want to go ahead and and say, like, this is my opinion, this is right, you know, and this is what you have to believe. That's that's I don't think how things work, but you know, there there are certain questions like is a friend a friend or is a friend an enemy, and where do those things uh intertwine a little bit or whatever? And so I wrote a composition called Frenemies, where I try to not say, like, oh, here you see the enemy and there the uh the friend, but like what kind of energy does result for me personally out of situations like that, or um yeah, uh or how do I want to reflect this energy in my music, you know, and then everybody can listen, agree, disagree, or make up their their own mind about it.

Hilary 19:35

Yeah, and I think also um whatever has influenced a piece of music, you can still listen to it as a piece of music. You know, I always think that with people like Gil Scott Heron, you know, intensely political and and real issues-driven music, but the music is incredible anyway. Even if you ignore all that stuff.

Tobias 20:01

That's the best part, you know. If you music music is amazing if you can listen to it, get get a message or interpret a message. Sometimes it's also interpretation, just you know. It's uh or if you just say, like, well, I don't care about any of that, but I enjoy listening to the music.

Hilary 20:18

Yeah.

Tobias 20:18

I just enloy enjoy to the emotional state of mind. For me, music is always a little bit just a transformation of energy, you know. Am I then more excited, more energetic? Do I get does it lift me up, lift me down, or put me down? Things like that, you know. And even if you don't agree or want to hear anything about what I thought, I hope you still enjoy it and you can still listen to the music without knowing any of it.

Hilary 20:45

Yeah. Fantastic. Well, good luck with recording that third album.

Tobias 20:52

Thank you.

Hilary 20:53

That's brilliant. It was so nice to talk to you, Tobias, and I'm so glad you got in touch.

Tobias 20:57

Thank you so much for the invitation, and thank you so much for the conversation.

Hilary 21:05

Thank you for joining me for that episode of Harmonious World, and I hope you enjoyed listening to my conversation with Tobias Hoffman. What you're listening to now is perseverance from his innuendo album. And I think they're in the studio right now recording album number three. But thank you for joining me once more for Harmonious World. Please remember to rate, review, share this episode, and others. Listen to some of the others. There's hundreds that you can listen to, and there's some great ones. Go back to the beginning, there's some amazing people. I mean, I constantly tell people to listen to the Maria Schneider one and uh Lila Bialli and Christian McBride, which was a couple of years ago. So do take a look at the back capital as well. But thank you for joining me once more for Harmonious World and have a great week.